I wrote this in my plan B and I'll repeat it. "Get friends, family and neighbors onboard." This is very iffy, first get to know the friends, family and neighbors MUCH BETER THAN YOU EVER HAVE BEFORE. Will you bet your life on them or the lives of your immediate family? Starving, cold people will kill for another meal! Been there, I do know what I'm talking about. Otherwise, I agree with about all that was said. A maybe funny aside. In my town you can't keep chickens, it's illegal. However, as a councilwoman told me (she's also my eye doctor's wife) there is nothing about ducks if you can stand all the quacking.
I should’ve clarified, and you’re right. By getting people onboard, doesn’t mean giving away your plans or what you have.
“Getting people onboard” for us has been casually chatting with neighbors, and more people gardened/started gardens this past summer, and a few neighbors have acquired chickens as well.
Not once did any discussion of economic hardship, or terror famines come up.
I suppose, fortunately, the last two plus years have shown me I really didn't know my friends, family, and neighbors. Almost every last one and their uncle has had the injection and refuse to hear any "conspiracy theories." In fact, I am facing the disturbing prospect of the first ever neighborhood get-together next weekend and I am trying to think of ways to avoid discussing everything. (The hosts are imbedded medical professionals; one is a know-it-all.) Advice desired!
We’ve been doing all of this (not stealth food growing, as of yet, but growing all of our own seasonal food) and other things well before this current era of troubles. But one can always do more, learn more, and share more ideas. That’s my job during the weekdays when DS is at work.
We hope we have some inspiration to work harder, and hopefully we offered some new ideas.
When I was younger, I had no money, but I was very adept at finding food from the wild.
I stayed at a friends house for free for years, because I kept the house stocked with clams, oysters fish, shark, shrimp, blue crabs amongst other things.
Just boil some squirrel and or birds and make sure not to get the bones (especially bird bones) mixed in there.
Mix in a food processor with some cooked white rice for consistency, filler.
Add some chicken stock if you have any to thin it out/flavor.
Add some peas and or carrots chunks.
You can add a dollop of raw yogurt into the mix for probiotics.
Of course, depending on the situation you may not have all that stuff, but there’s no excuse not to have rice, when you can get a 50lb bag for around $16 dollars and it stores for over 30 years.
I'm hoping deer will hold out a while . It's astounding to me that so few people know how many eastern game species went nearly extinct during the Great Depression...and that was with most folk having gardens and a much smaller population.
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
This quote is often used and there are many days I think we have reached this point, but everyone seems content to let things ride. If the AZ voting fiasco doesn't get people riled up I don't know what will. Look at Brazil and look at America, what a difference.
I read a wonderful piece Naomi Wolf wrote about this. She spoke of always feeling protected due her partner owning firearms but with COVID she had now decided it was her obligation to learn how to defend herself without assistance.
Who were “the Soviets?” Were they some kind of Christian group trying to starve some hardworking productive Jewish farmers? Why? It seems crazy. Are there any books that go into detail about this period? If I want to do a deep dive on this, what books should I read? What if I want “the whole story?” Are there any suppressed, censored books I can check out?
omg I never even heard about that and I am european. this is horrible. i have read about russian people having to eat sawdust etc during the napoleontic war but not this !
I confess, with my fancy multi-university health "education" I had never heard of this crime against humanity before today. Must have been all the in-doct-rination on the way to a doctorate.
Advice should be for the morons who refuse to think outside the box, you see all of the conspiracy theories have been proven true, and ones like climate change, EVs that need fossil fuel and give off 8 times the pollution of a gas powered car ones who are too lazy to research them and find out they are being taken for a ride. If you want to keep them as friends just keep politics on a back burner.
You know all the "conspiracy theories" that they would say where is your tin foil hat about? Well, those have all been proven true. Yep, my wife had the vax for some reason, probably convenience. Don't you think she came down with Ebola or Ecoli? Hard to keep those two straight. I have this same problem with my brother. This is my advice: if you still want their friendship, leave politics off the table around them. It's hard. For example, I got a letter from my brother "Trump will get us into a nuclear war." Pure fake news talking point. Now Biden getting us into one there is a much greater chance, but his wife has cancer, and he has problems, so I'm letting it go. I'll admit it's burning a hole in me but so be it.
Actually, trust is 100% among 45 of my friends. We met in Nam back in '80. I understand what you mean though everyone in the 'outside world' we are skeptical of.
I know, but it should. Economics (check history) has been the cause of all wars, shifts in politics, etc. The 'stealth gardens' was a new idea to me, I love it, take a look at aquaponics too, it's in the same vein.
We see the real situation reflected in this comment - the attempt to demonize Russians and rehabilitate Nazis.
"THE Holodomor" ("THE Starvation", literally "THE Death by Hunger") is the propaganda name for the Ukrainian section - and only the Ukrainian section - of the last of the regular famines in the black-earth belt of Eurasia that, for centuries, occured every decade or two. Stalin's policies can perhaps be argued to have made that particular famine worse in some ways, for which he deserves criticism. It's also true that Bolshevik administrators from Moscow behaved insensitively, even cruelly, in some cases. (However, as Brian Kennedy hints above, they were not predominantly ethnic Russian. Georgians, Jews and even Ukrainians were disproportionately represented in the Soviet power structure.) But the underlying Soviet policies that Ukrainian Nationalists wrongly present as genocidal didn't CAUSE the famine - they actually ENDED the sequence of famines - there was never another.
The famine was not confined to Soviet Ukraine, as it would obviously have been if it really were a "Russian" genocide against Ukrainians, as Ukrainian Nationalist propagandists tell people. It extended into Polish-ruled western Ukraine, and across the whole of the steppe of southern Russia and into the heavily Russian-inhabited northern areas of Kazakhstan. In fact the proportion of deaths was highest not in the Ukraine, but in northern Kazakhstan.
The Holodomor Story (as distinct from truthful accounts of the the horrors of this, and previous, famines) was a Cold War propaganda operation, echoing earlier Nazi anti-Soviet propaganda. Some suggest it was largely re-introduced to the Ukraine from America, where a basis of fact was worked up into an anti-Soviet and later anti-Russian narrative. Others suggest it was created as a counterbalance to the Holocaust narrative, presenting people who in some cases had highly plausible blame in that narrative, as the victims in the new narrative. I couldn't possibly comment.
Insofar as you might say that the famine later called The Holodomor was engineered, one could argue that it was done by the United States. They had contracts with the Soviet Union that were helping with the industrialisation that later allowed the USSR to withstand and then beat the Nazis. Under the terms of the contracts, payment was to be made in grain, not money. When crops failed in the steppelands, the Soviets tried to re-negotiate the contracts to allow payment in gold, so that they could divert food to the affected areas from areas further north where the harvest had been reasonable. This would have reduced the death-toll significantly. The USA refused, and insisted on payment in grain. One might argue that the Soviets should have broken their contracts with the USA and diverted food south. But in the resulting world, we would all be living under Nazi rule. And those of us of the wrong race, religion or ethnicity wouldn't be living at all - including, ironically, almost all the Ukrainians that spread this story. Presumably they think Generalplan Ost was a joke.
Calm down and try to be coherent. Actual sentences would help. Most of your comment is impenetrable spluttering, presumably caused by someone disagreeing with your ethnic hatred of Russians. I will answer what I can make any sense of. I will ignore anything that just says you disagree with me, as that is obvious.
Right, I've managed to find a couple of points worth responding to. Yes, there were cases of food being taken from farmers suspected (rightly or wrongly) of hoarding - I mentioned cases of insensitivity and cruelty, and condemned them. I have heard of no evidence that this was anything to do with ethnic Russian animus towards ethnic Ukrainians, not least because, as I said, the people doing it were not mainly ethnic Russians. Where the farmers were ethnic Russians, from eastern Ukraine all the way to northern Kazakhstan, there is no evidence that they were treated any better, as shown by the death rates. My impression was that it was a matter of class contempt held by the "sophisticated urbanites" against the rural population, whatever their ethnicity.
No, the Ukraine as a whole did not side with the Nazis, only a minority did. I don't unreservedly blame them - I am no great fan of the interwar Soviet Union, to put it mildly. Also, they were not privy to the Nazi plans for their own extermination, and they may have decided to throw their lot in with the devil they DIDN'T know, reversing the wisdom of the traditional saying. But perhaps I am being too generous, as those who did side with the Nazis committed their own atrocities, which in some cases shocked even their German Nazi mentors. Not just in the East, against Poles, Jews and Russians, either - the worst single atrocity during the Nazi occupation of France, the massacre of Oradour-sur-Glane, was committed by the Ukrainians of the Waffen-SS company Das Reich. The emblem of Das Reich is now used, minimally altered, by the Azov Division, the most honoured section of the Ukrainian army. However, the Nazi associations of a minority of Ukrainians in World War 2, and of the current government of the Ukraine, should not detract from the fact that the vast majority of Ukrainians that fought in WW2 were on the anti-fascist side, and played an important and honourable role. Those that survived past 2014 have often suffered for it.
I am astonished that you think that the iron curtain was impenetrable to propaganda. It wasn't even impenetrable to arms. Did you not know that the Americans supported a serious insurgency in the western Ukraine until the early 1950s, especially in the areas where the Ukrainian Nazis had exterminated or driven out the Polish and Jewish populations during the war? The propaganda certainly increased again after 1991, when Ukrainian Nazi sympathisers poured into the country from North America, set on inflaming ethnic tensions.
I have no idea what the weather is like in St Petersburg, without looking it up. To stoop to your level, how are things in the Eagle's Nest?
Gosh, you really are deep in all the propaganda. Yes, the population of the far eastern section of the Ukraine were ethnic Russians, and had been since the area was liberated from the Tartar slave-traders. Some of them were probably descended from the residual Slav population that had suffered under Tartar rule. A greater proportion moved there from all over Russia (including what later became the Ukraine). A few came from all over Europe - Donetsk and Lugansk were founded by an Englishman and a Welshman. The empire wanted a peaceable settled population to secure the area, and were grateful for any industrious settlers. The foreigners adopted the language of the area, which was Russian. Ukrainian at the time had not been formalised as a separate language - it was the dialect of Galicia, in the far west of the country, the far end of the Surzhyk dialect continuum, ranging from pure Russian in the East to what would later be regarded as pure Ukrainian in the West.
Ukrainian was no more predestined to be a separate language from Russian than Geordie (spoken in the extreme north-east of England) was to become a separate language from English. At the beginning of the 19th century, both Galician/Ukrainian and Geordie had their own local literature. The difference was politics - Russia had hostile powers to the west, while England had none to the north. After the partitions of Poland, Galicia was ruled by Austria. It was sometimes a troublesome province, because of pro-Russian Pan-Slavism. The Austrian solution combined repression and propaganda, the latter designed to persuade the Galicians that they were not really Russian. They encouraged Galicians in elevating their dialect to the status of a language, which they called Ukrainian - ignoring the fact that, taking the whole area now called the Ukraine, the local dialects were on average as close to standard Russian as to Galician. The strategy of encouraging a Ukrainian identity separate from Russia was continued by the German high command in World War 1 and the Nazis in World War 2 - accounting for two of the three times that an explicitly Ukrainian polity has been formed.
The third time (or second, chronologically) was after the civil war that followed WW1. The playing out of local forces had resulted in a "Ukrainian Republic" in the West of what is now the Ukraine, and the "Republic of Donetsk-Krivoy-Rog" in the East. I haven't checked, but I imagine that the working languages of the two republics were Ukrainian and Russian respectively. (Remember that Zelensky comes from Krivoy Rog, and his native language is Russian, not Ukrainian.) Lenin feared that a purely Ukrainian republic would be dominated by a conservative rural population, and insisted that the more industrial and proletarian eastern republic merge with it to anchor it better in the Soviet system. Strangely, the shorter name of "Ukraine" won out over "Ukraine-Donetsk-Krivoy-Rog". This was no doubt more convenient administratively, but it subsequently allowed ignoramuses and Nazis to claim that the people of Donetsk-Krivoy-Rog should have no civil rights if they refused to abandon their ancestral language and adopt a dialect from a thousand kilometers away, because their home had arbitrarily been given the name "Ukraine" and that dialect had arbitrarily been given the name "Ukrainian".
And yes, of course "Holodomor" is a Ukrainian word. It's Ukrainian propaganda, FFS. Why would they use Russian when propagating anti-Russian propaganda?
it is astonishing how many people never heard of holodomor.
i was surprised to find that even the ones i meet at the protest demonstrations in germany never heard of it.
Many countries still refuse to recognize it.
I believe Germany is going to vote on recognizing it this week.
And that’s only because Ukraine is “the current thing” right now.
I wrote this in my plan B and I'll repeat it. "Get friends, family and neighbors onboard." This is very iffy, first get to know the friends, family and neighbors MUCH BETER THAN YOU EVER HAVE BEFORE. Will you bet your life on them or the lives of your immediate family? Starving, cold people will kill for another meal! Been there, I do know what I'm talking about. Otherwise, I agree with about all that was said. A maybe funny aside. In my town you can't keep chickens, it's illegal. However, as a councilwoman told me (she's also my eye doctor's wife) there is nothing about ducks if you can stand all the quacking.
I should’ve clarified, and you’re right. By getting people onboard, doesn’t mean giving away your plans or what you have.
“Getting people onboard” for us has been casually chatting with neighbors, and more people gardened/started gardens this past summer, and a few neighbors have acquired chickens as well.
Not once did any discussion of economic hardship, or terror famines come up.
I suppose, fortunately, the last two plus years have shown me I really didn't know my friends, family, and neighbors. Almost every last one and their uncle has had the injection and refuse to hear any "conspiracy theories." In fact, I am facing the disturbing prospect of the first ever neighborhood get-together next weekend and I am trying to think of ways to avoid discussing everything. (The hosts are imbedded medical professionals; one is a know-it-all.) Advice desired!
How did it go?
We’ve been doing all of this (not stealth food growing, as of yet, but growing all of our own seasonal food) and other things well before this current era of troubles. But one can always do more, learn more, and share more ideas. That’s my job during the weekdays when DS is at work.
We hope we have some inspiration to work harder, and hopefully we offered some new ideas.
When I was younger, I had no money, but I was very adept at finding food from the wild.
I stayed at a friends house for free for years, because I kept the house stocked with clams, oysters fish, shark, shrimp, blue crabs amongst other things.
Ate like a king every single day, for free.
Haha wonderful story. Would love reading a narrative story about this and wld food identification and procurement!
One more recommendation: purchase a firearm and ammunition, learn how to use it. Practice!
That goes without saying!
I also recommend a cheapo pump pellet gun, for squirrels and birds.
If it ever goes down, I’ve got a rice and ground up bird/squirrel recipe for feeding the pets.
Agreed, but there’s a difference between handling a hunting weapon and a personal protection weapon.
Agreed.
That’s an entirely different article though. Lol.
Care to share that recipe?
Just boil some squirrel and or birds and make sure not to get the bones (especially bird bones) mixed in there.
Mix in a food processor with some cooked white rice for consistency, filler.
Add some chicken stock if you have any to thin it out/flavor.
Add some peas and or carrots chunks.
You can add a dollop of raw yogurt into the mix for probiotics.
Of course, depending on the situation you may not have all that stuff, but there’s no excuse not to have rice, when you can get a 50lb bag for around $16 dollars and it stores for over 30 years.
I'm hoping deer will hold out a while . It's astounding to me that so few people know how many eastern game species went nearly extinct during the Great Depression...and that was with most folk having gardens and a much smaller population.
That’s why you have to learn other species people won’t be looking for.
Squirrels, etc.
I lean a big stick at 45 degrees from a tree branch, with a rat trap screwed to it.
Great for squirrel.
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
Words of wisdom from someone who knew the face of evil...
This quote is often used and there are many days I think we have reached this point, but everyone seems content to let things ride. If the AZ voting fiasco doesn't get people riled up I don't know what will. Look at Brazil and look at America, what a difference.
I read a wonderful piece Naomi Wolf wrote about this. She spoke of always feeling protected due her partner owning firearms but with COVID she had now decided it was her obligation to learn how to defend herself without assistance.
Yup. In nature, the female of the species is usually the most ferocious, the most venomous, and all animals are armed.
Humans were armed with a brain, so we could create our own weapons, which made us the apex predator.
Women should be the most armed and trained.
The male is usually out, at work, out hunting, or at war.
The woman needs to be able to defend the home and the family.
Who were “the Soviets?” Were they some kind of Christian group trying to starve some hardworking productive Jewish farmers? Why? It seems crazy. Are there any books that go into detail about this period? If I want to do a deep dive on this, what books should I read? What if I want “the whole story?” Are there any suppressed, censored books I can check out?
You sound pretty knowledgeable in the topic.
Are there any books you’d like to recommend?
I have not read it yet but 200 Years Together by Alexander Solyenitsin is one I want to check out sometime.
omg I never even heard about that and I am european. this is horrible. i have read about russian people having to eat sawdust etc during the napoleontic war but not this !
Highly recommend that you spread the word. It’s a tragedy that these victims voices are still silenced to this day.
It’s very covered up.
Trotsky said, “you think you are starving? When you eat your children you will know that you are starving.”
…some did.
horrendous. this was before my time, but still astonished they managed to cover that up so tightly
I confess, with my fancy multi-university health "education" I had never heard of this crime against humanity before today. Must have been all the in-doct-rination on the way to a doctorate.
What is the literal translation of the word?
Advice should be for the morons who refuse to think outside the box, you see all of the conspiracy theories have been proven true, and ones like climate change, EVs that need fossil fuel and give off 8 times the pollution of a gas powered car ones who are too lazy to research them and find out they are being taken for a ride. If you want to keep them as friends just keep politics on a back burner.
You know all the "conspiracy theories" that they would say where is your tin foil hat about? Well, those have all been proven true. Yep, my wife had the vax for some reason, probably convenience. Don't you think she came down with Ebola or Ecoli? Hard to keep those two straight. I have this same problem with my brother. This is my advice: if you still want their friendship, leave politics off the table around them. It's hard. For example, I got a letter from my brother "Trump will get us into a nuclear war." Pure fake news talking point. Now Biden getting us into one there is a much greater chance, but his wife has cancer, and he has problems, so I'm letting it go. I'll admit it's burning a hole in me but so be it.
Actually, trust is 100% among 45 of my friends. We met in Nam back in '80. I understand what you mean though everyone in the 'outside world' we are skeptical of.
Terrific! That is the idea that separates the survivalist from the rest. Just a guess, probably why you didn't think of the bad in people.
We’ve got our own thing going… and numbers.
Example, closest neighbor is a Corpsman. I planted an apple orchard in his yard.
Obviously trust isn’t 100% anywhere, but we’re about as solid as solids going to get.
You are blessed. Here people do the talk but not the walk, and the folks that have got it together are very organized and leery of outsiders.
I know, but it should. Economics (check history) has been the cause of all wars, shifts in politics, etc. The 'stealth gardens' was a new idea to me, I love it, take a look at aquaponics too, it's in the same vein.
We’ve got land, a few hundred acres, so we’ve got native edibles, apple trees, etc spread throughout.
For example, people go through great lengths to get rid of their dandelions, while we see salad and wine…
Holodomor was perhaps the greatest human tragedy never known. Its only rival of which I am aware is the force(s) that destroyed the Maya.
there is a reason ukrainians hate the russians......
the germans truly liberated the ukrainians from the russians.
We see the real situation reflected in this comment - the attempt to demonize Russians and rehabilitate Nazis.
"THE Holodomor" ("THE Starvation", literally "THE Death by Hunger") is the propaganda name for the Ukrainian section - and only the Ukrainian section - of the last of the regular famines in the black-earth belt of Eurasia that, for centuries, occured every decade or two. Stalin's policies can perhaps be argued to have made that particular famine worse in some ways, for which he deserves criticism. It's also true that Bolshevik administrators from Moscow behaved insensitively, even cruelly, in some cases. (However, as Brian Kennedy hints above, they were not predominantly ethnic Russian. Georgians, Jews and even Ukrainians were disproportionately represented in the Soviet power structure.) But the underlying Soviet policies that Ukrainian Nationalists wrongly present as genocidal didn't CAUSE the famine - they actually ENDED the sequence of famines - there was never another.
The famine was not confined to Soviet Ukraine, as it would obviously have been if it really were a "Russian" genocide against Ukrainians, as Ukrainian Nationalist propagandists tell people. It extended into Polish-ruled western Ukraine, and across the whole of the steppe of southern Russia and into the heavily Russian-inhabited northern areas of Kazakhstan. In fact the proportion of deaths was highest not in the Ukraine, but in northern Kazakhstan.
The Holodomor Story (as distinct from truthful accounts of the the horrors of this, and previous, famines) was a Cold War propaganda operation, echoing earlier Nazi anti-Soviet propaganda. Some suggest it was largely re-introduced to the Ukraine from America, where a basis of fact was worked up into an anti-Soviet and later anti-Russian narrative. Others suggest it was created as a counterbalance to the Holocaust narrative, presenting people who in some cases had highly plausible blame in that narrative, as the victims in the new narrative. I couldn't possibly comment.
Insofar as you might say that the famine later called The Holodomor was engineered, one could argue that it was done by the United States. They had contracts with the Soviet Union that were helping with the industrialisation that later allowed the USSR to withstand and then beat the Nazis. Under the terms of the contracts, payment was to be made in grain, not money. When crops failed in the steppelands, the Soviets tried to re-negotiate the contracts to allow payment in gold, so that they could divert food to the affected areas from areas further north where the harvest had been reasonable. This would have reduced the death-toll significantly. The USA refused, and insisted on payment in grain. One might argue that the Soviets should have broken their contracts with the USA and diverted food south. But in the resulting world, we would all be living under Nazi rule. And those of us of the wrong race, religion or ethnicity wouldn't be living at all - including, ironically, almost all the Ukrainians that spread this story. Presumably they think Generalplan Ost was a joke.
diverted food south?
implying that ukraine would have been on the receiving end of that food would it?
so the stories of the sowjet taking away every scrap of food from the ukraine are untrue?
and the people of saint petersburg and moscow did die of starvation en masse did they?
them not having the opportunity to grow food and not getting it from the government as it had to go to the usa....
cold war and nazi propaganda.
seems to have worked.
the ukrainians welcomed the nazi's as their liberators not even 10 years after the holodomor.
german propaganda must have been top of the bill.
but american must have been even better to be able to install a myth into the people of a country behind the iron curtain...
kgb..
how is the weather in saint petersburg?
Calm down and try to be coherent. Actual sentences would help. Most of your comment is impenetrable spluttering, presumably caused by someone disagreeing with your ethnic hatred of Russians. I will answer what I can make any sense of. I will ignore anything that just says you disagree with me, as that is obvious.
Right, I've managed to find a couple of points worth responding to. Yes, there were cases of food being taken from farmers suspected (rightly or wrongly) of hoarding - I mentioned cases of insensitivity and cruelty, and condemned them. I have heard of no evidence that this was anything to do with ethnic Russian animus towards ethnic Ukrainians, not least because, as I said, the people doing it were not mainly ethnic Russians. Where the farmers were ethnic Russians, from eastern Ukraine all the way to northern Kazakhstan, there is no evidence that they were treated any better, as shown by the death rates. My impression was that it was a matter of class contempt held by the "sophisticated urbanites" against the rural population, whatever their ethnicity.
No, the Ukraine as a whole did not side with the Nazis, only a minority did. I don't unreservedly blame them - I am no great fan of the interwar Soviet Union, to put it mildly. Also, they were not privy to the Nazi plans for their own extermination, and they may have decided to throw their lot in with the devil they DIDN'T know, reversing the wisdom of the traditional saying. But perhaps I am being too generous, as those who did side with the Nazis committed their own atrocities, which in some cases shocked even their German Nazi mentors. Not just in the East, against Poles, Jews and Russians, either - the worst single atrocity during the Nazi occupation of France, the massacre of Oradour-sur-Glane, was committed by the Ukrainians of the Waffen-SS company Das Reich. The emblem of Das Reich is now used, minimally altered, by the Azov Division, the most honoured section of the Ukrainian army. However, the Nazi associations of a minority of Ukrainians in World War 2, and of the current government of the Ukraine, should not detract from the fact that the vast majority of Ukrainians that fought in WW2 were on the anti-fascist side, and played an important and honourable role. Those that survived past 2014 have often suffered for it.
I am astonished that you think that the iron curtain was impenetrable to propaganda. It wasn't even impenetrable to arms. Did you not know that the Americans supported a serious insurgency in the western Ukraine until the early 1950s, especially in the areas where the Ukrainian Nazis had exterminated or driven out the Polish and Jewish populations during the war? The propaganda certainly increased again after 1991, when Ukrainian Nazi sympathisers poured into the country from North America, set on inflaming ethnic tensions.
I have no idea what the weather is like in St Petersburg, without looking it up. To stoop to your level, how are things in the Eagle's Nest?
"yes there were cases of food being taken from farmers."
how about all food was being taken away from all farmers?
" Where the farmers were ethnic Russians, from eastern Ukraine all the way to northern Kazakhstan"
so before 1932 eastern ukraine was inhabited by russians?
eastern ukraine was settled with russians only after the original ukrainian population was murdered by the russians.....
holodomor is ukrainian, not russian for a reason....
today is the day after the fourth saturday in november.
Gosh, you really are deep in all the propaganda. Yes, the population of the far eastern section of the Ukraine were ethnic Russians, and had been since the area was liberated from the Tartar slave-traders. Some of them were probably descended from the residual Slav population that had suffered under Tartar rule. A greater proportion moved there from all over Russia (including what later became the Ukraine). A few came from all over Europe - Donetsk and Lugansk were founded by an Englishman and a Welshman. The empire wanted a peaceable settled population to secure the area, and were grateful for any industrious settlers. The foreigners adopted the language of the area, which was Russian. Ukrainian at the time had not been formalised as a separate language - it was the dialect of Galicia, in the far west of the country, the far end of the Surzhyk dialect continuum, ranging from pure Russian in the East to what would later be regarded as pure Ukrainian in the West.
Ukrainian was no more predestined to be a separate language from Russian than Geordie (spoken in the extreme north-east of England) was to become a separate language from English. At the beginning of the 19th century, both Galician/Ukrainian and Geordie had their own local literature. The difference was politics - Russia had hostile powers to the west, while England had none to the north. After the partitions of Poland, Galicia was ruled by Austria. It was sometimes a troublesome province, because of pro-Russian Pan-Slavism. The Austrian solution combined repression and propaganda, the latter designed to persuade the Galicians that they were not really Russian. They encouraged Galicians in elevating their dialect to the status of a language, which they called Ukrainian - ignoring the fact that, taking the whole area now called the Ukraine, the local dialects were on average as close to standard Russian as to Galician. The strategy of encouraging a Ukrainian identity separate from Russia was continued by the German high command in World War 1 and the Nazis in World War 2 - accounting for two of the three times that an explicitly Ukrainian polity has been formed.
The third time (or second, chronologically) was after the civil war that followed WW1. The playing out of local forces had resulted in a "Ukrainian Republic" in the West of what is now the Ukraine, and the "Republic of Donetsk-Krivoy-Rog" in the East. I haven't checked, but I imagine that the working languages of the two republics were Ukrainian and Russian respectively. (Remember that Zelensky comes from Krivoy Rog, and his native language is Russian, not Ukrainian.) Lenin feared that a purely Ukrainian republic would be dominated by a conservative rural population, and insisted that the more industrial and proletarian eastern republic merge with it to anchor it better in the Soviet system. Strangely, the shorter name of "Ukraine" won out over "Ukraine-Donetsk-Krivoy-Rog". This was no doubt more convenient administratively, but it subsequently allowed ignoramuses and Nazis to claim that the people of Donetsk-Krivoy-Rog should have no civil rights if they refused to abandon their ancestral language and adopt a dialect from a thousand kilometers away, because their home had arbitrarily been given the name "Ukraine" and that dialect had arbitrarily been given the name "Ukrainian".
And yes, of course "Holodomor" is a Ukrainian word. It's Ukrainian propaganda, FFS. Why would they use Russian when propagating anti-Russian propaganda?
Mr Jones.
Joey and his crew are enjoying every minute of destroying us.